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Thread: Questions Regarding Playtech Live Blackjack

  1. #11
    Moderator The Dealer's Avatar
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    Why, oh why, does the procedure you outline not take place in view of the players while the game is going on.
    IT DOES!!! The shuffling procedure I described does happens in front of you!!! I think there is no need to do any simulations to understand that therefor it is totally impossible that your 16 aces are kept on the bottom...

    And the Delaers reaction was like that just because she was not sure, what to answer to that kind of rare question. According to the procedure she have to ask for the PA's assistance. The thing is that the company does cares about the service, so they are eager to provide the Players with all necessary and appropriate answers. Would you prefer an misinforming, mistaken answer?!
    Last edited by The Dealer; 10-18-2012 at 07:45 PM.

  2. #12
    Administrator LD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goooner View Post
    Live dealer players are often banned by casinos, apparently, because they sit there and wait for a high count, bet and then toodle off... A tripling of the return immediately, combatting those that Wong in and bet with a high count (as now the number of blackjacks have gone down) and a higher retention of the customers' money without the customer realising anything is amiss.
    For those not familiar with the term 'Wong', it's basically an advantage play technique where you keep a running count of the deal (not playing) and only start betting when the shoe has a favourable count. You can read more about at https://www.livedealer.org/liveblack...nford-wong.htm.

    goooner, is it possible to effectively count and bet to that count all in the first half of the shoe? I thought the general consensus was you needed more penetration than that.

    Also, I wasn't aware live dealer players were often banned - would love to hear from a few who have been...where, why etc...in fact might start another thread re same

    OK done...https://www.livedealer.org/forums/sh...advantage-play
    'coz good old fashioned real random beats simulated random any day

  3. #13
    Moderator The Dealer's Avatar
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    The figure from the Wizard for 8 decks, dealer hits s17, is 0.57% to be precise, with no double permitted after a split.
    Maybe I misunderstood this, because of my English. But, if I am right, you are misinforming people again.
    In all Playtech provided live BJ games dealer stands on 17s and a double option is available after a split, except if you split aces, because then you receive only one card for each ace.

  4. #14
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    The 0.57% on Wizard of Odds is for dealer stands on 17s, sorry:
    •8 decks
    •Dealer stands on soft 17
    •Player may resplit to four hands, except aces
    •No drawing to split aces
    is slightly different, in that only one split is allowed. But the difference are tiny, 0.62% for one split only I find elsewhere. So, the 3% loss per hand of those that contacted me is suspicious

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dealer View Post
    IT DOES!!! The shuffling procedure I described does happens in front of you!!! I think there is no need to do any simulations to understand that therefor it is totally impossible that your 16 aces are kept on the bottom...

    And the Delaers reaction was like that just because she was not sure, what to answer to that kind of rare question. According to the procedure she have to ask for the PA's assistance. The thing is that the company does cares about the service, so they are eager to provide the Players with all necessary and appropriate answers. Would you prefer an misinforming, mistaken answer?!
    No, a once through the pack shuffle takes place at the table. When I mimic that with 16 aces at the bottom, they are not in play in the next shoe. The shuffling which takes place at the so-called shuffling table is not visible to the player.

    I guess asking for the PA's assistance just looked like she had been caught with the meat in her mouth, if you forgive the analogy.
    Last edited by goooner; 10-22-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  6. #16
    Moderator The Dealer's Avatar
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    No, a once through the pack shuffle takes place at the table.
    No, it is not! At the table you can see the shuffling procedure I described. Would be nice, that you pay attention to things like that, before announcing such facts. You are misinforming. There is never a once through the pack shuffle on the Playtech tables. There is always a Ceasar's cut before those riffles. On most on the tables the shuffling procedure takes place on the left side of the table (next to Dealer's right hand) on a special additional table extension. On some exlusive tables (bet365, gala, williamhill (IT)) the procedure takes place at the middle of the table.

  7. #17
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    The shuffle that takes place at the table is as follows:
    The pile is split into two, then one pile is cut and the top placed on the bottom. The pile on the right, which was at the bottom, is not cut. Then the two piles are shuffled in five or six stages (it varied). Then the new pile is cut. The effect is that the bottom half of the cards that arrive at the table will not be used in the next deal.

    Now, I cannot tell what happens to the cards when they are taken away from the table. All I know is that the cards SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THE TABLE AT ALL. It lends itself to accusations that they are being arranged out of sight. And the fact that the owner of Playtech, Teddy Sagi, has been in prison, lends itself to more accusations.

    "William Hill spent significant time in front of the five-member panel addressing its business relationship with gaming software supplier Playtech Ltd., whose founder and majority shareholder, Teddy Sagi, served jail time in 1996 for fraud and bribery. Regulators have seen the partnership with Playtech as an unattractive component of William Hill’s past and present", was a report by Cardplayer.com on the application by William Hill to the Nevada Gaming Commission. So, regulators are not that happy with Playtech.

  8. #18
    Moderator The Dealer's Avatar
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    Then the two piles are shuffled in five or six stages (it varied). Then the new pile is cut.
    --> Almost correct so far. It is always 8 stages, not more or less. After the pile is cut, the top is placed on the bottom. And then they put the cutting card again at the middle and then just stuff it all in the shoe. Accordingly, those cards of bottom half are in the game.

    Happy or not, but all the Casinos connected to Playtech floor are licensed, so officially announced as safe to play in.

  9. #19
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    Quite a number of casinos that have disappeared with client funds appear on casino listings worldwide. The safety of funds is not linked to the software provider. The shuffle I just observed had six sections, but it does not matter if there are six or eight, the end result is the same - cards that start at the top will go to the bottom, and then when there is a cut they go back to the top, and vice versa.

    And another technique known in Asian Online Live Casinos is to take out the tens, and put them back in clumps of 8 tens together. This favours the house.

    But you have not answered the basic question: "WHY DO THE CARDS GO OUT OF VIEW OF THE PLAYERS?"

    And, if I was you, I would disassociated yourself from Armstrong - or people might think Playtech cheat like he did, and like Teddy Sagi did.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by goooner View Post
    And another technique known in Asian Online Live Casinos is to take out the tens, and put them back in clumps of 8 tens together. This favours the house.
    Hi Goooner. Is this hearsay/conjecture or do you have first hand knowledge of this happening?
    If it's first hand knowledge can you tell us which Asian online casinos (platform provider), and how you came to know that this was happening?

    I don't ask these questions to be argumentative. I ask out of genuine interest, and also because in the online gambling world claims of impropriety are numerous. Substantiated claims not so common.

    cheers
    'coz good old fashioned real random beats simulated random any day

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