1. ## Zero commission baccarat

Typical payouts for live baccarat are as follows:

Banker win: 0.95:1
Player win: 1:1
Tie: 8:1

The house takes a 5% commission ('Vigorish') on the Banker win.

M88 have changed payouts on their live baccarat to:

Banker win: 1:1
Player win: 1:1
Tie: 8:1

Note no house commission on the Banker win. Accordingly, they are calling it "No Commission Baccarat", with a tag line...

"BECAUSE YOU DESERVE TO WIN IT IN FULL"

BUT, before you get too excited...as expected they've compensated for this with another change... when banker wins on 6 the payout is 0.5:1.

Perhaps a more appropriate name for the game would be 'Different Commission Baccarat'

2. Which is the better returning game? normal live baccarat or m88 zero commission game?

3. Unless my quick maths are wrong. ?? Normal baccarat returns better. ?

4. Depends, how lucky you are to not hit the "6" for banker...
If seriously, no idea. My maths is failing regularly anyway...

5. I looked at the maths again, as I understand for a 8 deck shoe:

The game results are - banker wins 45.86% , player wins 44.62 % , & tie 9.52%

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With a no commission game we are only interested in games where the banker wins ...

From possible card combinations I calculate the banker wins on 6 --- 11.74% of these games

I therefore believe that the returns are better on normal baccarat, rather than taking the much bigger 'hit' of 0.5:1 return on this "No Commission Bacarrat"

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If anybody wants to do the maths again and verify this, please feel free to do so.

6. All i can contribute is that you can't compare general game returns ... these will differ for either game depending on your bet choice - Banker, Player, Tie playing either game

ie, returns will be higher betting 'Banker' playing normal baccarat V betting 'Tie' playing the No commission game. But returns will be higher betting 'Banker' playing No commission game V betting 'Tie' playing normal baccarat.

A like for like comparison has to concentrate on returns for 'Banker' bet in either game. (Player and Tie bets should be identical - no difference in payouts/probability for these)

This is the simple bit ....then we get into the maths which is where I make a slippery exit.

Fester you could well be correct. Your probability calculations are in line with the Wizard of Odds who goes on to calculate a house edge of 1.06% (or 'return to player rate' of 98.94%) on Banker bets for 'normal' 8 deck baccarat...

Banker Bet — 8 Decks
Event Pays Combinations Probability Return
Banker wins 0.95 2,292,252,566,437,888 0.458597 0.435668
Player wins -1 2,230,518,282,592,256 0.446247 -0.446247
Tie 0 475,627,426,473,216 0.095156 0
Total 4,998,398,275,503,360 1 -0.010579

7. Tried to work it out house edge on Banker bet for 'No commission baccarat' and have a headache (and no confident answer)! Might see if I can get some help on this one

8. using Wizard of Odds data :

For normal baccarat - probability of banker win is 0.458597 * pays (0.95) = 0.435667 return

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"No commission" game -

probability of a banker win on 6 is 0.053863 * pays (0.5) = 0.026932
probability of all other banker wins is 0.404734 * pays (1) = 0.404734

The return for this game is 0.026932 + 0.404734 = 0.431666

>>> So the return for banker wins is less on this version.

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It appears these figures produce a house edge of 1.46% for M88 on banker bets.

(I may get round to doing a nice table to present these figures or LD perhaps ? ... my brain is still in a state of shock from doing maths after several years holiday )

9. Excellent work Fester...look forward to the table!

10. No need for the table Fester

Seems the Wizard has also done the calculations, I just couldn't find them earlier...he called this variation Punto Banco 2000

His calculations match yours for a house edge of 1.46% on the Banker bet...good maths skills!

Commission Free Baccarat — Banker Win on 6 pays 1 to 2
Event Combinations Probability Pays Return
Banker wins 1-1 2,023,020,261,982,210 0.404734 1 0.404734
Banker wins 1-2 269,232,304,455,680 0.053864 0.5 0.026932
Player wins 2,230,518,282,592,260 0.446247 -1 -0.446247
Tie 475,627,426,473,216 0.095156 0 0
Total 4,998,398,275,503,360 1 -0.014581