Zero commission baccarat

[LD]

Typical payouts for live baccarat are as follows:

Banker win: 0.95:1
Player win: 1:1
Tie: 8:1

The house takes a 5% commission ('Vigorish') on the Banker win.

M88 have changed payouts on their live baccarat to:

Banker win: 1:1
Player win: 1:1
Tie: 8:1

Note no house commission on the Banker win. Accordingly, they are calling it "No Commission Baccarat", with a tag line...

"BECAUSE YOU DESERVE TO WIN IT IN FULL"

BUT, before you get too excited...as expected they've compensated for this with another change... when banker wins on 6 the payout is 0.5:1.



Perhaps a more appropriate name for the game would be 'Different Commission Baccarat'

[kanja]

Which is the better returning game? normal live baccarat or m88 zero commission game?

[Unclefester]

Unless my quick maths are wrong. ?? Normal baccarat returns better. ?

[The Dealer]

Depends, how lucky you are to not hit the "6" for banker...
If seriously, no idea. My maths is failing regularly anyway...

[Unclefester]

I looked at the maths again, as I understand for a 8 deck shoe:

The game results are - banker wins 45.86% , player wins 44.62 % , & tie 9.52%

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With a no commission game we are only interested in games where the banker wins ...

From possible card combinations I calculate the banker wins on 6 --- 11.74% of these games

I therefore believe that the returns are better on normal baccarat, rather than taking the much bigger 'hit' of 0.5:1 return on this "No Commission Bacarrat"


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If anybody wants to do the maths again and verify this, please feel free to do so.

[LD]

All i can contribute is that you can't compare general game returns ... these will differ for either game depending on your bet choice - Banker, Player, Tie playing either game

ie, returns will be higher betting 'Banker' playing normal baccarat V betting 'Tie' playing the No commission game. But returns will be higher betting 'Banker' playing No commission game V betting 'Tie' playing normal baccarat.

A like for like comparison has to concentrate on returns for 'Banker' bet in either game. (Player and Tie bets should be identical - no difference in payouts/probability for these)

This is the simple bit ....then we get into the maths which is where I make a slippery exit.

Fester you could well be correct. Your probability calculations are in line with the Wizard of Odds who goes on to calculate a house edge of 1.06% (or 'return to player rate' of 98.94%) on Banker bets for 'normal' 8 deck baccarat...

Banker Bet — 8 Decks
Event	Pays	Combinations	Probability	Return
Banker wins	0.95	2,292,252,566,437,888	0.458597	0.435668
Player wins	-1	2,230,518,282,592,256	0.446247	-0.446247
Tie	0	475,627,426,473,216	0.095156	0
Total		4,998,398,275,503,360	1	-0.010579

[LD]

Tried to work it out house edge on Banker bet for 'No commission baccarat' and have a headache (and no confident answer)! Might see if I can get some help on this one

[Unclefester]

using Wizard of Odds data :

For normal baccarat - probability of banker win is 0.458597 * pays (0.95) = 0.435667 return

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"No commission" game -

probability of a banker win on 6 is 0.053863 * pays (0.5) = 0.026932
probability of all other banker wins is 0.404734 * pays (1) = 0.404734

The return for this game is 0.026932 + 0.404734 = 0.431666

>>> So the return for banker wins is less on this version.

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It appears these figures produce a house edge of 1.46% for M88 on banker bets.

(I may get round to doing a nice table to present these figures or LD perhaps ? ... my brain is still in a state of shock from doing maths after several years holiday )

[LD]

Excellent work Fester...look forward to the table!

[LD]

No need for the table Fester

Seems the Wizard has also done the calculations, I just couldn't find them earlier...he called this variation Punto Banco 2000

His calculations match yours for a house edge of 1.46% on the Banker bet...good maths skills!

Commission Free Baccarat — Banker Win on 6 pays 1 to 2
Event	Combinations	Probability	Pays	Return
Banker wins 1-1	2,023,020,261,982,210	0.404734	1	0.404734
Banker wins 1-2	269,232,304,455,680	0.053864	0.5	0.026932
Player wins	2,230,518,282,592,260	0.446247	-1	-0.446247
Tie	475,627,426,473,216	0.095156	0	0
Total	4,998,398,275,503,360	1		-0.014581