Questions Regarding Playtech Live Blackjack

Hello all

I have noticed on Playtech's live Blackjack that periodically they change the cards and the new ones come in a locked box, couple of questions:

1) Any idea how frequent this is?

Much more importantly:

2) Why dont they spread the whole new shoe out in front of you before they use it, as this is what is commonly done in normal casinos when changing cards? Im sure the shoe's are as they should be, but would this not be better practice to highlight to customers the integrity of the game etc?

many thanks

James

Hi jamesmagic.

2 excellent questions. All I can tell you is that the deal is from an 8-deck shoe with cut-card always inserted (around) middle of shoe.

Hopefully The Dealer can shed some more light on on your questions...or even better maybe give us a short overview of shuffle/shoe-change/new shoe card burn... etc policies (pretty please) :o

Well, I will do my best... :)

Let's start with the "much more importantly" question:

Quote:

---

Why dont they spread the whole new shoe out in front of you before they use it, as this is what is commonly done in normal casinos when changing cards? Im sure the shoe's are as they should be, but would this not be better practice to highlight to customers the integrity of the game etc?

---

Hmm, James if you will ever have a chance to play on the bet365 dedicated BJ table and observe the whole table opening procedure at 7pm (Latvian time), you will understand why we don't spread the whole new shoe out in front of you every time there is a card change on the table - it lasts 15 till 17 minutes. So, if we would do so, we will more than half of the time having a card change procedure on the table and not an actual game. That would be quite irrational, right? :confused:

And I doubt that in normal Casinos it is like that, not at least in those, in which I have been lucky to be in. As far as I know, they really do that spreading out and stuff, but quite rare - few times in a month, or something, I bet it depends on each Casinos specific policy anyway...

And now it's gona be difficult for me to explain you the other thing. So immagine - the white card comes out, so it's time for a card change. The shuffler comes with cards in a closed box which already have been shuffled according to our Casino shuffling procedure, who is complex, quite long, includes different shuffling technicks and absollutelly provides a random shuffled set of cards at the end. It's last usually about 3 minutes, sometimes less, if another shuffler assists. So they bring them to the BJ table, when there is need and shuffles another time in front of you, to double down the "randomness". And so over and over again.

They are not brand new fresh cards, they are already used cards, just shuffled again. Of course, we are changing on regular basis the old, used cards to totally fresh cards stright from secure storage room. They are also double checked before by pitboss and shufflers to make sure that the bar codes are correct, that there are all cards in every deck etc., and only then the cards can get on the floor to serve you.

How freqent exactly everything happens? First of all, I have no idea, and even if I would know, I am not allowed to say, because that's a commercial secret (not sure if I use the correct English term). All I can say is that time by time I notice that there are new, fresh cards, which (at least for me) are more comfortable to deal.

Ok, I guess I am done. I hope it's helped to clear things up . :o

Hello

firstly, thank you both for coming back to me and especially Dealer for giving such a long response.

The problem is, online, intergrity is everything and unfortunately "your word" is probably not sufficient for all players (Full Tilt gave their word as well...).

Also, unfortunately, the concern is not that it is random, that looks clear, but rather than there are none of the decks are short of Aces or picture cards..which are beneficial to the player.

Whilst I appreciate, the procedure is lengthy, which eats into playing time (and thus revenues), it is also important, especially for higher limit bettors.

Why dont you simply do it much less frequently (or not at all!)? It seems the cards are changed very often at Playtech, which is really the problem...it doesnt seem necessary. That way, you still get to maintain the off screen shuffling for whatever reason, but us players can see several shoes run through with shuffling on screen, greatly alleviating any concerns. I would suspect once or twice a day per table should be sufficient, or at least no more than every 4 hours. But when the cards are frequently changed, and then never shown to the player, it can only bring up concerns.

A bricks and mortar casino would not change the cards so frequently and whenever they do, they would always shoe the entire shoe out with the dealer checking it in front of the player (or at least in the UK where I live).

I would very much welcome you feeding this back to people at Playtech if possible and from a player's perspective it does seem that Evolution Gaming appreciate this issue and thus i suspect why operators powered by them dominate the higher limit games.

Plus shuffle procedures are not normally commercial secrets, walk into any casino and they will gladly tell you when, who and how they change the cards. Unfortunately, it seem Playtech are probably too far removed from the players to really understand this...whilst good at technology, I suspect they dont really understand the customer facing aspect of the business..

Please do ask if anything I have said is not clear, as I very much appreciate your time- in other ways, I much prefer the Playtech offering, but this is too much of a concern in my mind to be brushed aside.


many thanks

James

I noticed this thread on here, and I already have major suspicions. Here is what I posted on some other sites before seeing the above:

A number of people have contacted me or my website about Playtech Live Dealer Blackjack. They report that playing basic strategy they are losing around 3% in live dealer games which use the Playtech software, instead of the expected figure of about 0.6% which the game should produce playing Basic strategy. They take advantage of casino promotions and think they have a fair chance to make money at -0.6% (they are often offered $100 to deposit $100 with 8 times play through for example) but little chance at -3%.

I have looked at the different tables on various sites (this site indicates which casinos use Playtech software, so you can check), and the complete shoe is taken away from the table, and then brought back for a "once through the pack" single shuffle. This gives rise to a suspicion, possibly unjustified, that the shoe is "arranged" before returning to the table - and this is the reason it is taken out of view for a short time. On one occasion I saw cards face up on an empty table in view in the main lobby, and there were about 10-12 aces on the right, all face up. Perhaps the cards were being sorted and checked. That view was only there for a short time, as someone then collected the cards.

The interesting statistic from the people who contacted me was that the percentage of Blackjacks for the player overall was around 2.4%, almost exactly half the figure that it should be for 8 decks of 4.7451% (2/416*128/415*2). What could happen to cause this might, for example, be that at the shuffle table the casino takes out 16 of the aces and places them at the bottom. Then there is a single riffle in six sections followed by a cut, so that these 16 aces will not be in play in the new shoe. There will now be an average of 8 aces in the section that will be used in the new shoe, and not the average of 16 aces that would be expected for the (approximately) 208 cards that are used in an 8 deck game with the postilion inserted half way. I did a simulation for 8 decks with only 50% aces, and had a figure of -3.3% playing basic strategy - no doubt you would be better than me at checking that!

I manually recorded 10 shoes and saw 83 aces, about the number I would expect in 5 shoes, so statistically there does seem to be something suspect about the game. The result I had was around 7 standard deviations below expectancy. I was not playing, and selected a full table where I could record without having to play. When I asked the live dealer why the shoe was being taken away from the table, she seemed very annoyed and called the supervisor and said "look what is in my chat box". The supervisor came and said that I could see another shuffle taking place at the shuffle table, but that was not available on the site I was using. Online support and the support of my site clarified that the "shuffle" could not be seen on most software. Also there is no independent verification that the shuffle out of view is fair.

I notice that The Dealer, who seems to be defending the failure of the casino to shuffle openly, has the following signature:
"Winning is about heart, not just legs. It's got to be in the right place." Lance Armstrong.

Presumably the right place is the one where you don't get caught ....

Very interesting reading, thanks for the post.


I have had quite minor questions & comments referred to the PA / pit boss.

I think most things at Playtech are not as open as they should and could be!

Everything the dealers do & say is surrounded in casino rules, secrets, lies, & standard lines they are given to respond to player questions.


The whole Playtech management policy of dealers not supposed to discuss the operation of the casino floor just creates an atmosphere of mistrust and false information.

too gooner

I don't even know how to start. Ok, I am gonna try to not defend enything. Clearly - just my opinion based on the facts I know.

Quote:

---

They report that playing basic strategy they are losing around 3% in live dealer games which use the Playtech software, instead of the expected figure of about 0.6% which the game should produce playing Basic strategy.

---

I have questions. Does this "expected figure of about 0,6%" was calculated before on this kind of Black Jack game? By "this kind" I mean a BJ played with 8 decks (not 6, like in some Casinos); a game, where before each hand one card is burned (in most of casinos they don't burn any card before hands). I bet, those small diferences could change the expected percentage of everything. So if those reporters are comparing some calculated percentages, does they did them or based them on exactly the same kind of BJ's?! Or maybe not...

Quote:

---

On one occasion I saw cards face up on an empty table in view in the main lobby, and there were about 10-12 aces on the right, all face up. Perhaps the cards were being sorted and checked. That view was only there for a short time, as someone then collected the cards.

---

What an evidence... Pff.. And I saw Elviss 2 years ago... Right...
If you saw this, so actually you can see those shuffler tables? Because the only reason why this could happen is with special bet365 cards for the dedicated, exclusive bet365 BJ table. On this table you can request to change all the cards and start over with new, arranged shoe, where the shuffler comes on opens every deck in front of you, therefor you, other players, the dealer and the shuffler check and sees that there are all cards. (You can see this every single day at 7pm Latvian time on that dedicated table.)To do this those cards have to be arranged in 8 decks, each suit from ace to king.

Do you know those people, who contacted you? I mean, why the hell you are so sure you can trust them just like that, but at the same time everything is so suspicious in Casino's, which have been licensed, which means that it is been guaranteed that they are fair and that it is safe to play in them?!

You are making some simulation on one shoe (8 decks) and then recording 10 shoes and afterwards doing so many conclutions based on them? Why? It too less! I t can be just an coincidence. Maybe most of aces within 10 shoes where on the bottom of the shoe or they where those burn cards at the beggining or before every sinlge hand. Do calculations, recordings and simulations with 100 000 shoes, and then post some percentages here. I would really appreciate that.

Quote:

---

What could happen to cause this might, for example, be that at the shuffle table the casino takes out 16 of the aces and places them at the bottom. Then there is a single riffle in six sections followed by a cut, so that these 16 aces will not be in play in the new shoe.

---

How to comment this?... Hmmm... These two sentences is the main reason why all your so called "arguments" and facts seems ... unreliable.
If you would at least once pay attention to the shuffling procedure made on the actual game table with those "suspicious" cards from the card box, this is what you would see --> the shuffer takes out all 8 decks of the shoe, takes half off and puts it on the right side of the "leftover" cards. Then the shuffler does a Ceasar's cut (takes half off, put it too front and the bottom place on the top of that half) with the right par of cards. Then the shuffler makes a ussual single riffle shuffle in eight (not six!) sections. Then the shuffler puts the first cutting card half in that tower in a random choosed place, then cut it off, put it down, the bottom put again on the previous top part, and then lay down the whole set and again cuts about 4 decks with the second white card. Then put it in the shoe and voila! - it's done. Sounds complicated, and it is and should be like that. I would call that a real , trustfull, fair shuffle. And now, if you would like to count some possibilities, do this with 8 decks at home, with your 16 aces arranged on the bottom. Where do you think they would be at the end of this? Nobody knows... And can you imagine? - before this they are doing another one, just it is more complicated and time-consuming, that why they do that on special shuffling tables.



P.S. When I choosed my signature, I (the same as rest of the world) did not know that Armstrong actually cheated. But the fact that he did, does not means that I don't agree with this quote. I would say, that the attitude is that what counts when you are doing anything in your life. If you put your heart in everything you do, you are a winner already, just because of the positive emotions you are receiving within the process. :o

Hi goooner, welcome to the forums, and thanks for sharing your analysis...good stuff

Call me naive, but my take on the question of Playtech or any other major operator cheating by some kind of card tampering method is this:

- the gain is a few extra bucks in the short term before word gets out (as it invariably always does...someone mention Lance again?) and the sh1t hits the fan.
- the loss is irreparable damage to the Playtech brand, lost players AND lawsuits for breach of contract from all of their licensees who are very protective of their own brands

To spend many millions of dollars setting up a sophisticated live deal operation only to take this kind of risk on a game that has a house edge anyway (quite large for players not playing optimally!)...to me this is the height of stupidity and makes no business sense at all.

I tend to agree with the Wizard of Odds (checked his site to see if he'd done any statistical analysis on any of the live blackjack games -unfortunately not)...

Quote:

---

What you should be worried about from online casinos is not that they are cheating with the cards. The casinos don’t need to cheat to make money, the built in house edge is sufficient to ensure financial security...What you should be worried about is bad customer service

---

...extremely bad customer service being no response, ever, when you ask for your winnings to be cashed out :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Dealer

too gooner
I have questions. Does this "expected figure of about 0,6%" was calculated before on this kind of Black Jack game? By "this kind" I mean a BJ played with 8 decks (not 6, like in some Casinos); a game, where before each hand one card is burned (in most of casinos they don't burn any card before hands). I bet, those small diferences could change the expected percentage of everything. So if those reporters are comparing some calculated percentages, does they did them or based them on exactly the same kind of BJ's?! Or maybe not...

---

The figure of 0.6% was taken from the Wizard of Odds site, playing basic strategy. The burn card makes no difference, and the 8 decks increase the house advantage slightly over smaller number of decks. The figure from the Wizard for 8 decks, dealer hits s17, is 0.57% to be precise, with no double permitted after a split.

On your other points, the shuffle at the other table cannot be viewed by the player, so I cannot verify how it is done. I did try the procedure I saw with 16 aces on the bottom, and they remained in the bottom half after the shuffle and cut. The only time I saw some face-up aces was when there was a general view of the lobby as I logged in, before I selected a table. That could well have been cards checked before being changed.

The players who contacted me were not known to me, but did send records of their results on request. That is when I noticed the shortage of Blackjacks and began to investigate further. I was also suprised by the reaction of the dealer when I asked why the cards were being taken away from the table ("Look at what is in my chat box"). It is not practical to record 10,000 deals as recording ten shoes took three hours. I recorded another 10 shoes last weekend, and had 79 aces, against an expectancy of about 160, so the same trend was observed. It would be an easy procedure for the shuffling table to move 16 aces to the bottom after the complicated shuffle that you say takes place with Caesar's cuts and 8 sections. It would take them about 30 seconds of the 3 minutes the shoe leaves the table.

But the overriding criticism is the lack of openness. The whole idea of live dealer games is to eliminate suspicion raised by RNG games - which indeed is unjustified as LD states. There is no independent monitoring of the shuffle of which I am aware. Why, oh why, does the procedure you outline not take place in view of the players while the game is going on. A second person is used in any case. Then there would be no cause for concern. And in answer to LD's point if the casinos make 3% using Playtech software and only 0.6% using, say, Evolution or Wagerlogic, then which one do you think they are going to choose. All look above board to the untrained eye.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LD

Hi goooner, welcome to the forums, and thanks for sharing your analysis...good stuff
Call me naive, but my take on the question of Playtech or any other major operator cheating by some kind of card tampering method is this:

- the gain is a few extra bucks in the short term before word gets out (as it invariably always does...someone mention Lance again?) and the sh1t hits the fan.
- the loss is irreparable damage to the Playtech brand, lost players AND lawsuits for breach of contract from all of their licensees who are very protective of their own brands

---

If the house edge is 3% instead of 0.6%, then there will not be too much winnings to pay out. Live dealer players are often banned by casinos, apparently, because they sit there and wait for a high count, bet and then toodle off. I agree with the casinos here, in that they are running a business and can exclude whoever they like. The software kicks you off if you do not bet for two or three turns, but then you can sit down again, so my sympathy is with the casinos.

We know that some rogue online casinos do not pay out, and do not like winners. Fortunately there are those that are completely above board. Betfred, which was the site I watched at, were unaware the cards were taken away from the table, and they agreed this was wrong and agreed to refer it to the supplier - Playtech, but they have not got back to me yet.

And the gain from taking out 16 aces and putting them at the bottom would be threefold. A tripling of the return immediately, combatting those that Wong in and bet with a high count (as now the number of blackjacks have gone down) and a higher retention of the customers' money without the customer realising anything is amiss.

Quote:

---

Why, oh why, does the procedure you outline not take place in view of the players while the game is going on.

---

IT DOES!!! The shuffling procedure I described does happens in front of you!!! I think there is no need to do any simulations to understand that therefor it is totally impossible that your 16 aces are kept on the bottom... :rolleyes:

And the Delaers reaction was like that just because she was not sure, what to answer to that kind of rare question. According to the procedure she have to ask for the PA's assistance. The thing is that the company does cares about the service, so they are eager to provide the Players with all necessary and appropriate answers. Would you prefer an misinforming, mistaken answer?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goooner

Live dealer players are often banned by casinos, apparently, because they sit there and wait for a high count, bet and then toodle off... A tripling of the return immediately, combatting those that Wong in and bet with a high count (as now the number of blackjacks have gone down) and a higher retention of the customers' money without the customer realising anything is amiss.

---

For those not familiar with the term 'Wong', it's basically an advantage play technique where you keep a running count of the deal (not playing) and only start betting when the shoe has a favourable count. You can read more about at https://www.livedealer.org/liveblack...nford-wong.htm.

goooner, is it possible to effectively count and bet to that count all in the first half of the shoe? I thought the general consensus was you needed more penetration than that.

Also, I wasn't aware live dealer players were often banned - would love to hear from a few who have been...where, why etc...in fact might start another thread re same

OK done...https://www.livedealer.org/forums/sh...advantage-play

Quote:

---

The figure from the Wizard for 8 decks, dealer hits s17, is 0.57% to be precise, with no double permitted after a split.

---

Maybe I misunderstood this, because of my English. But, if I am right, you are misinforming people again.
In all Playtech provided live BJ games dealer stands on 17s and a double option is available after a split, except if you split aces, because then you receive only one card for each ace.

The 0.57% on Wizard of Odds is for dealer stands on 17s, sorry:
•8 decks
•Dealer stands on soft 17
•Player may resplit to four hands, except aces
•No drawing to split aces
is slightly different, in that only one split is allowed. But the difference are tiny, 0.62% for one split only I find elsewhere. So, the 3% loss per hand of those that contacted me is suspicious

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Dealer

IT DOES!!! The shuffling procedure I described does happens in front of you!!! I think there is no need to do any simulations to understand that therefor it is totally impossible that your 16 aces are kept on the bottom... :rolleyes:

And the Delaers reaction was like that just because she was not sure, what to answer to that kind of rare question. According to the procedure she have to ask for the PA's assistance. The thing is that the company does cares about the service, so they are eager to provide the Players with all necessary and appropriate answers. Would you prefer an misinforming, mistaken answer?!

---

No, a once through the pack shuffle takes place at the table. When I mimic that with 16 aces at the bottom, they are not in play in the next shoe. The shuffling which takes place at the so-called shuffling table is not visible to the player.

I guess asking for the PA's assistance just looked like she had been caught with the meat in her mouth, if you forgive the analogy.

Quote:

---

No, a once through the pack shuffle takes place at the table.

---

No, it is not! At the table you can see the shuffling procedure I described. Would be nice, that you pay attention to things like that, before announcing such facts. You are misinforming. There is never a once through the pack shuffle on the Playtech tables. There is always a Ceasar's cut before those riffles. On most on the tables the shuffling procedure takes place on the left side of the table (next to Dealer's right hand) on a special additional table extension. On some exlusive tables (bet365, gala, williamhill (IT)) the procedure takes place at the middle of the table.

The shuffle that takes place at the table is as follows:
The pile is split into two, then one pile is cut and the top placed on the bottom. The pile on the right, which was at the bottom, is not cut. Then the two piles are shuffled in five or six stages (it varied). Then the new pile is cut. The effect is that the bottom half of the cards that arrive at the table will not be used in the next deal.

Now, I cannot tell what happens to the cards when they are taken away from the table. All I know is that the cards SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THE TABLE AT ALL. It lends itself to accusations that they are being arranged out of sight. And the fact that the owner of Playtech, Teddy Sagi, has been in prison, lends itself to more accusations.

"William Hill spent significant time in front of the five-member panel addressing its business relationship with gaming software supplier Playtech Ltd., whose founder and majority shareholder, Teddy Sagi, served jail time in 1996 for fraud and bribery. Regulators have seen the partnership with Playtech as an unattractive component of William Hill’s past and present", was a report by Cardplayer.com on the application by William Hill to the Nevada Gaming Commission. So, regulators are not that happy with Playtech.

Quote:

---

Then the two piles are shuffled in five or six stages (it varied). Then the new pile is cut.

---

--> Almost correct so far. It is always 8 stages, not more or less. After the pile is cut, the top is placed on the bottom. And then they put the cutting card again at the middle and then just stuff it all in the shoe. Accordingly, those cards of bottom half are in the game.

Happy or not, but all the Casinos connected to Playtech floor are licensed, so officially announced as safe to play in.

Quite a number of casinos that have disappeared with client funds appear on casino listings worldwide. The safety of funds is not linked to the software provider. The shuffle I just observed had six sections, but it does not matter if there are six or eight, the end result is the same - cards that start at the top will go to the bottom, and then when there is a cut they go back to the top, and vice versa.

And another technique known in Asian Online Live Casinos is to take out the tens, and put them back in clumps of 8 tens together. This favours the house.

But you have not answered the basic question: "WHY DO THE CARDS GO OUT OF VIEW OF THE PLAYERS?"

And, if I was you, I would disassociated yourself from Armstrong - or people might think Playtech cheat like he did, and like Teddy Sagi did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goooner

And another technique known in Asian Online Live Casinos is to take out the tens, and put them back in clumps of 8 tens together. This favours the house.

---

Hi Goooner. Is this hearsay/conjecture or do you have first hand knowledge of this happening?
If it's first hand knowledge can you tell us which Asian online casinos (platform provider), and how you came to know that this was happening?

I don't ask these questions to be argumentative. I ask out of genuine interest, and also because in the online gambling world claims of impropriety are numerous. Substantiated claims not so common.

cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LD

Hi Goooner. Is this hearsay/conjecture or do you have first hand knowledge of this happening?
If it's first hand knowledge can you tell us which Asian online casinos (platform provider), and how you came to know that this was happening?

I don't ask these questions to be argumentative. I ask out of genuine interest, and also because in the online gambling world claims of impropriety are numerous. Substantiated claims not so common.

cheers

---

Only what I am told by colleagues who run live dealer games. I do some work designing games, and sometimes attend the trade shows.

I have no proof, but taking the cards away from the table is always suspicious.

There are quite a few allegations out there. blackjackbet.co.uk for example gives a range of ways to cheat such as:

your live blackjack dealers dealer could arrange the cards in a high-low order, which is death to all players: you get dealt a Queen, then a Three, you have to hit and get another ten-valued card.

Another questions:

1. The cards for the players are shown before the dealer draws them. How is this possible?
2. Minbet is 5, maxbet is 50. Some players bet 4, some 150.
3. There is a player (called "n...") who plays the whole day long. Bets on more seats and often more than 50. Is this automatic play for the casino?
4. There are many casinos offering playtech live dealer, but there are only the same 4 tables available for all of them. Are there only 28 players worldwide playing the game?

bvlgari

Hi bvlgari, these are all pretty easy to explain

1. As soon as the scanner on table reads the card being drawn from the shoe, the card info is sent to you, and there is a slight internet lag of the live video feed in what you see the dealer doing.

2. Each casino has different limits for the games, any player who bets outside your limit range is probably playing at a different casino. You can in theory contact your customer support to change your limits.

3. "Null" is the name given to a player who has not chosen, or been given a nickname. The system and dealers do know they are different players from their user accounts.

4. Actually there are more than 4 tables. I'm assuming you mean the green tables. The green tables have slightly lower limits. Until recently all the tables were green, then Playtech introduced two types of table - blue or green. Some casinos with lower limits, or perhaps with a smaller financial deal with Playtech only provide the green tables. They actually close tables in less busy times, eg. after 2am Latvian time when there are less players and yet usually there are free seats at tables.

Some countries do not allow players to join the tables for various reasons - so not strictly players from worldwide. Also, Playtech have another studio in Asia. Besides which ... Playtech is not the only choice available to players eg. see here

Hi unclefester (the one from Addams Family? :))

thank you for your fast answer! I have only tried Titancasino (green table) and William Hill (blue table). They use the same tables (Apollo, Atlas, Hercules, Mars) and same betting limits (5-50). So I thought all playtech-casinos use the same tables. Do you know other casinos for theses tables with higer limits? Or other casinos with other tables? Or do I only have to look at the list of bet limits on the main site? Sorry for my questions, you see I am an newbie.

Yes Addams Family ... it used to make some dealers smile also - now they run screaming, or move to Little Italy :D

Those tables you mention are all green tables yes. When I say green I mean the actual table colour the dealer sits at, not the interface table colour (Will Hill's interface tables are blue).

All the other blue tables should be available to you at William Hill (Hermes, Poseidon, Pluto, Vulcan, Zeus), and you should be able to choose your bet limits before taking a seat (up to £1250 in my case).

The reviews on the main site are the best starting point yes.

It depends on which country you are playing from as to all the casinos available to you. Many people play at bet365 ... they also have one extra dedicated table just for their players at Playtech.

Do you mean William Hill Casino Club? Wow, maxbet 1250, what is than the minimum bet? (I wish I could have this necessary bankroll :)). Is this common usage that you can ask for personal limits in online casinos? I have never heard about before. Are there special requirements?

I mostly play through William Hill's other site.

I am a member of William Hill Casino Club also. Just checked my betting limits there ... they are the same £2.50-100 or £5-1250. I've only played a few times at Casino Club, ~ less than £1000 in total betted, and I never asked for a higher limit, those are just the standard levels available to me.

Below are screenshots from the two ways of playing at William Hill Casino Club. In the browser / instant play Flash window you can see the different coloured tables, and the drop down menu where you select table limits.

Attachment 1187... browser & Attachment 1188... download casino

bvlgari, there are much more BJ tables available on the Playtech european floor, though some of them are dedicated for only one CasinoSite, so they are exclusive. Altogether there are 13 BJ tables so far, out of them, dedicated are Bet365 BJ table (read also here), Betfair dedicated BJ table and Gala Casino dedicated BJ table. Also there is Unlimited BJ table, where you are able to play on all 5 seats at once and there can play unlimited count of Players on each seat (even 28 :) and more). I am not sure on how many tables, but you can also receive the option to play on more than one seat, if only they are not taken already. :o

It is a slighlty more complex situation since the introduction of the blue coloured tables.

At Betfair they only allow me to play on the green tables (Apollo, Atlas, Hercules, Mars) and the Unlimited BJ table (Pegasus) as discussed by The Dealer.

Before at Betfair I could also play at Hermes, Poseidon, Vulcan, & Zeus - now they are blue tables I can't play on them !

& they don't allow me to play on their dedicated BJ table because I haven't played enough with them to be at the correct VIP level


--
All tables now seem to allow you to play on more than one seat (multiple seats per player) - except Pluto for me

Indeed it seems to be a little bit confusing. My table limits are also in the William Hill Casino Club 5-50 where Unclefester has three limits to choose. And there are dedicated tables for especial VIP levels. Perhaps The Dealer knows more about the different limits and how to be upgraded.

If you look at the pictures you see I have two limits £2.5-100 or £5-1250 for the normal blackjack tables.

bvlgari ... William Hill Casino Club don't have exclusive / dedicated blackjack tables at Playtech. You need to contact your customer support to discuss your bet limits, and see if they can, or will make the blue tables available to you.

Interesting post...

btw casinofloor when did India move location to the United Kingdom as you are there :p